Hello everyone !

[wade]

And thank you so much to those who put this site together and reached out to guide the rest of us (and oregano and me) hone to this site. We missed y’all!

Oregano had a low glucose event last night in her 3.25 dose (after 6th dose, so day three) but I’m happy to say I didn’t make the mistake I made last time and spike her with caro. Kept it steady with her protein crunchies and a little HC soft food and got her back into the mid 100’s after a harrowing hour (honestly is there much worse than waiting those 15 minutes to check again when they’re dropping? It was all I could do not to ply her with caro but I refrained and she came out of it well).

Reduced her down to 3 for tonight’s dose (had to skip this morning’s dose because she was at 137 at amps). Was at 350 when I shot tonight.

I need to figure out how to link my spreadsheet to this site. Anyone have a pointer on that? I am going to fiddle tonight to see if I can figure that out.

Happy surfing all. Oregano says hi!

Wade and oregano

 

[Mary & Jude]

And thank you so much to those who put this site together and reached out to guide the rest of us (and oregano and me) hone to this site. We missed y’all!

Oregano had a low glucose event last night in her 3.25 dose (after 6th dose, so day three) but I’m happy to say I didn’t make the mistake I made last time and spike her with caro. Kept it steady with her protein crunchies and a little HC soft food and got her back into the mid 100’s after a harrowing hour (honestly is there much worse than waiting those 15 minutes to check again when they’re dropping? It was all I could do not to ply her with caro but I refrained and she came out of it well).

Reduced her down to 3 for tonight’s dose (had to skip this morning’s dose because she was at 137 at amps). Was at 350 when I shot tonight.

I need to figure out how to link my spreadsheet to this site. Anyone have a pointer on that? I am going to fiddle tonight to see if I can figure that out.

Happy surfing all. Oregano says hi!

Wade and oregano

Hi Wade! Glad you found us! You should be able to go back to the FDMB and copy your signature (which should contain the link to your SS) and paste it in your signature here. You'll also want to copy the link to your last post on the FDMB and paste it at the top of this post. This message board is very similar to the one at FDMB, so finding the signature, etc., here, should be familiar, but let us know if you need help.

 

[Tim & Pookey]

Hey Wade - glad you found us. I’m happy to send you a screen recording tomorrow if you can’t get it sorted out. Just let me know.

 

[Helen + Noogi]

So glad you found us here Wade!
Good job keeping Oregano out of danger without causing a mega-bounce yesterday.
I'm curious to have a look at her spreadsheet once you get it linked to see how she has been doing the last few weeks.

I remember you were considering changing to TR before. On that protocol you wouldn't have skipped a dose on 137. I reckon TR might be what you need to get her out of the pinks and yellows on a more regular basis. Please ask for advice if you are still thinking about making the switch but aren't sure. The experts are here to advise and answer questions, and the rest of us happy to share our experiences and support. I know on the old board once or twice you didn't get answers to your dosing queries. Please keep asking for help if you need to! Here you can use the Dose? prefix on your thread title for extra visibility. Please post everyday if you are able!

 

[Laurie & Petey]

Hi Wade, Welcome "Back"!

Awesome job not hijacking Oregano's cycle yesterday, it is sooo hard not to keep them extra, extra safe! And yes, I agree, that 15min can feel like forever!

Have a great day.

 

[Brianna & Xander]

Hey Wade! So glad to see you and Oregano found us! I've been thinking about you guys.

 

[Staci & Ivy]

Hi Wade and Oregano, good to see you both here. Sending good vibes to you and Oregano. Glad things are going well and you’re handling everything well for your sweet girl.

 

[wade]

So glad you found us here Wade!
Good job keeping Oregano out of danger without causing a mega-bounce yesterday.
I'm curious to have a look at her spreadsheet once you get it linked to see how she has been doing the last few weeks.

I remember you were considering changing to TR before. On that protocol you wouldn't have skipped a dose on 137. I reckon TR might be what you need to get her out of the pinks and yellows on a more regular basis. Please ask for advice if you are still thinking about making the switch but aren't sure. The experts are here to advise and answer questions, and the rest of us happy to share our experiences and support. I know on the old board once or twice you didn't get answers to your dosing queries. Please keep asking for help if you need to! Here you can use the Dose? prefix on your thread title for extra visibility. Please post everyday if you are able!

i need to learn more about TR--i have read all the stickies and checked out the spreadsheets of the kitties on it and am in awe of how well they are doing, but it seems like it lacks the safety measures of slgs (like not shooting under 150, or shooting reduced dose between 150 and 200). really scares me. If i had given oregano her full dose at 137 two mornings ago i am not sure she would have been ok; we skipped that am dose and she still dropped into the 80's, which i understand is a great number, but it's awfully close to the danger zone (i'm right on that, right?) and i worry what i could do if she got that low, refused to eat, and was reduced to me having to rub her gums with caro or administer it rectally to keep her alive. we are 30 minutes from the all-night animal hospital and i worry that that is too far away to make it in time if she hits that low.

i am re-reviewing the TR stickies in the hopes that it clicks. as of now, SLGS makes sense to me and seems a followable formula; TR just seems terrifying.

i guess a question i would have would be how low can the kitties go before they reach a point they can't come back, regardless of intervention? that is what keeps me up at night. quite literally. I check her numbers basically hourly through the night.

 

[wade]

Hey Wade - glad you found us. I’m happy to send you a screen recording tomorrow if you can’t get it sorted out. Just let me know.

Hey Tim and Pookey, i will take you up on that screen recording if the offer still stands. I have my sig in place now, but the spreadsheet is the actual link and not the nice clean words "oregano's spreadsheet" as it was on the previous site. this is my lack of understanding the software i am sure so i can probably figure it out, but if you have a shortcut you can recommend i'd be in your debt.

also, i went through pookey's spreadsheet and it's incredible how well you handled and beat this disease. any tips on that would be appreciated as well. pookey looks to have been diagnosed around the time oregano was, but you guys definitely got it under control faster.

 

[wade]

Hi Wade, Welcome "Back"!

Awesome job not hijacking Oregano's cycle yesterday, it is sooo hard not to keep them extra, extra safe! And yes, I agree, that 15min can feel like forever!

Have a great day.

thanks Laurie (and petey!) -- y'all have a great day too. we have coasted mostly in the blues with some mid 200's as well (though in the 300's now 30 minutes before supper), which is a little odd to me because we skipped amps 2 days ago and had a reduced (50%) am dose this morning because she was at 161 at amps. and her numbers looked better today than they have in a while.

 

[wade]

Hey Wade! So glad to see you and Oregano found us! I've been thinking about you guys.

thank you! i ordered and received the freestyle 3 today--have not set it up yet but am going to do that tomorrow. we have been using the freestyle 2 for months and no issues with it but the idea of being able to get her BG numbers on my phone wherever i am in the house is what sold me on the freestyle 3. how have you found it? does it work well? can you look at your phone and get xander's readings from the other side of the house? oregano sleeps at night in her bed in our bedroom, and the idea of being able to just check my phone without getting out of bed and scanning her (the beeping wakes her up and then she's ready to play, or be held, or fed, or any variety of things other than let me go back to sleep) is really appealing.

 

[wade]

Hey Wade! So glad to see you and Oregano found us! I've been thinking about you guys.

those trips you and Xander took down to the 40's on a few occasions--that's what keeps me off TR. I am truly terrified to my core that i won't be able to bring her back up the way you were with Xander. my hats off to you, truly. was Xander symptomatic at those levels and is that just part of TR?

 

[wade]

Hi Wade and Oregano, good to see you both here. Sending good vibes to you and Oregano. Glad things are going well and you’re handling everything well for your sweet girl.

thank you. i notice in your signature that it says "libre reads lower than contour." does that mean libre readings tend to be lower than the actual readings are, in your experience?

 

[Tim & Pookey]

Hey Tim and Pookey, i will take you up on that screen recording if the offer still stands. I have my sig in place now, but the spreadsheet is the actual link and not the nice clean words "oregano's spreadsheet" as it was on the previous site. this is my lack of understanding the software i am sure so i can probably figure it out, but if you have a shortcut you can recommend i'd be in your debt.

also, i went through pookey's spreadsheet and it's incredible how well you handled and beat this disease. any tips on that would be appreciated as well. pookey looks to have been diagnosed around the time oregano was, but you guys definitely got it under control faster.

Hey Wade - no worries, I just went ahead and fixed it for you on the back-end. For future reference, there is an icon that looks like a chain link, that's how you'd insert a link into words.

You're doing a great job with Oregano. I would say the biggest moments in our journey were getting rid of the dry food, switching to TR, and then just being as consistent as possible with everything we did. Consistent with meal times and quantities. Eliminate as many variables as you can.

On being scared of lows, that's perfectly normal. You might find over time and with data that she surfs the low greens nicely, instead of tanking like you're imagining. One example that comes to mind recently is @Seth&Bell back when he had Bell down in the 50s a few months ago.

If you follow the TR guidelines on increases/decreases, and have the hypo kit, you should be pretty well prepared.

 

[Brianna & Xander]

those trips you and Xander took down to the 40's on a few occasions--that's what keeps me off TR. I am truly terrified to my core that i won't be able to bring her back up the way you were with Xander. my hats off to you, truly. was Xander symptomatic at those levels and is that just part of TR?

The funny thing is that that can (and does) happen with SLGS too. So unfortunately sticking to SLGS doesn't really mean it won't happen (maybe just less likely). It doesn't happen that often for us either. If you look back at mid-April we were having an incredible stretch of AM cycle greens without much lime at all!

Xander wasn't symptomatic at all with those recent limes. Seemed totally normal. It's also important to keep in mind that the Libre reads lower at the low end than a handheld meter would, so in all likelihood, he wasn't nearly as low as it said he was. Now I'm obviously not just going to ignore them, especially with the "LO" reading (which could be 39, or it could be 15, who knows without confirming with a manual test). But more than likely, when he was, say 45, he was probably at least 55, if not higher.

 

[wade]

gotcha. sounds like i just need to toughen up then. i have the alarm on oregano's monitor set at 90 and in the few instances it has gone off (always the middle of the night, but it is loud and effective thankfully) i have probably overstressed. she's never been symptomatic either, so i probably need to loosen up a bit on that.

thank you for the information and the feedback. i'm off to make oregano's supper and get her ready for bed (rather like having a baby, with more hair though.) thanks again, wade and oregano

 

[wade]

Hey Wade - no worries, I just went ahead and fixed it for you on the back-end. For future reference, there is an icon that looks like a chain link, that's how you'd insert a link into words.

You're doing a great job with Oregano. I would say the biggest moments in our journey were getting rid of the dry food, switching to TR, and then just being as consistent as possible with everything we did. Consistent with meal times and quantities. Eliminate as many variables as you can.

On being scared of lows, that's perfectly normal. You might find over time and with data that he surfs the low greens nicely, instead of tanking like you're imagining. One example that comes to mind recently is @Seth&Bell back when he had Bell down in the 50s a few months ago.

If you follow the TR guidelines on increases/decreases, and have the hypo kit, you should be pretty well prepared.

thank you again for the link fix.

question for you re the dry food: even if the dry food is like 7% carbs (as the dr elsey's clean protein is supposed to be) do you recommend getting off it? is there something else about dry food that is problematic for diabetic cats or is it the case that even the low carb stuff like the dr elsey's still has too much carbs in it?

 

[Brianna & Xander]

gotcha. sounds like i just need to toughen up then. i have the alarm on oregano's monitor set at 90 and in the few instances it has gone off (always the middle of the night, but it is loud and effective thankfully) i have probably overstressed. she's never been symptomatic either, so i probably need to loosen up a bit on that.

thank you for the information and the feedback. i'm off to make oregano's supper and get her ready for bed (rather like having a baby, with more hair though.) thanks again, wade and oregano

Nooo, I wouldn't say that! They're not comfortable for me either! Gosh, way back when we were first diagnosed I stayed up all night one night because I saw a 90. (And that was the Libre 2 which sucked and kept having sensor errors and making me wait a LONG time to get another reading). It really just comes with experience and knowing you have stuff on-hand to help if you need to.

I guarantee you if I ever have a symptomatic hypo I'm gonna be doing what I need to do but I'm gonna be panicking while I do it.

 

[Tim & Pookey]

thank you again for the link fix.

question for you re the dry food: even if the dry food is like 7% carbs (as the dr elsey's clean protein is supposed to be) do you recommend getting off it? is there something else about dry food that is problematic for diabetic cats or is it the case that even the low carb stuff like the dr elsey's still has too much carbs in it?

We were on the Dr. Elsey’s too and saw a noticeable shift down in numbers once we got rid of it. But some cats do okay on it from what I’ve seen. Here’s a post by Dr. Lisa on why you shouldn’t concentrate on just carb percentage.

 

[Seth&Bell]

Howdy Wade! Like Tim mentioned, I've shot in the 50s with Bell - you can take a look at Feb of this year on Bell's spreadsheet to see some nice, flat green cycles when I have shot that. I actually would prefer to shoot greens for Bell because I seem to get more consistent and predictable cycles when I do. The bouncing around that Bell does makes her a bit unpredictable sometimes.

I also think it is natural (and wise) to be cautious when starting out shooting lower numbers than you're used to. For me, the more data I gathered on how Bell reacted to lower preshots, the more comfortable I became doing so. But! That doesn't mean I'm not vigilant when I do shoot those numbers - there are some long nights on Bell's spreadsheet. As they preach here, every cat is different (ECID) and having a lot of data showing how Oregano acts to different situations is a valuable tool. The dream is getting your cat as regulated and predictable as Tim got Pookey. TR is likely the fastest way to get on that path if Oregano has that in her range of outcomes. Regardless of the dosing method you use, you can always switch back and forth if you need a break or if you feel one or the other is not working. You're doing great!

I'll caveat this by saying that I have less than a year of experience at this and I'm not qualified to give dosing advice. But from my observations with Bell and other cats' SS, you can't necessarily extrapolate, say, a 50% drop from a preshot of 300 to a nadir of 150 to shooting a preshot of 50 or 60 and assuming the nadir will be 25 or 30 (or lower). Bell seems to hover in the 50's and 60's when she's on a good dose and will occasionally dip below 50 for a reduction (when I ask her pretty pretty please at 3 am).

And one last thing: you need to be comfortable with the dosing method you choose, because you're the one taking care of Oregano. These kind folks will help you through it, but at the end of the day you need to take care of yourself to take care of Oregano. There's so much stress frontloaded in dealing with FD that it is completely overwhelming at the start.

 

[Staci & Ivy]

thank you. i notice in your signature that it says "libre reads lower than contour." does that mean libre readings tend to be lower than the actual readings are, in your experience?

Yes, Wade. In my experience, I have noticed that when the sensor reads Lo (or under 100) it tends to be higher when I blood test her on the Contour meter.
But again you have to know how your cat reads on the sensor vs the handheld.

I’ve read other cats are only a few points to 30 points difference. So you can’t compare Ivy to Oregano.
I just post that as my experience. But I have read other cats read similarly to my experience.

One other point, yes with the Libre 3, you will receive the data on your phone anywhere you are, even out of your house.
The data is transmitted since you will use the Libre Linkup app, which sends the data to your phone from Oregano’s phone (I assume you have a phone you will use to stay near Oregano 24/7. *You do not use your own phone to “read/scan” her sensor).

 

[wade]

Yes, Wade. In my experience, I have noticed that when the sensor reads Lo (or under 100) it tends to be higher when I blood test her on the Contour meter.
But again you have to know how your cat reads on the sensor vs the handheld.

I’ve read other cats are only a few points to 30 points difference. So you can’t compare Ivy to Oregano.
I just post that as my experience. But I have read other cats read similarly to my experience.

One other point, yes with the Libre 3, you will receive the data on your phone anywhere you are, even out of your house.
The data is transmitted since you will use the Libre Linkup app, which sends the data to your phone from Oregano’s phone (I assume you have a phone you will use to stay near Oregano 24/7. *You do not use your own phone to “read/scan” her sensor).

Yes ma’am. I have oregano’s phone which I am hoping will transmit the data to my phone. It’s gen easier with oregano as she is a paraplegic so doesn’t wander. We move her room to room in a variety of beds and kitty pillows. I plan to get the libre 3 set up this weekend.

Thanks, and have a great weekend.

 

[Max@tif+chai&mocha2]

You asked if it would be best to get off the dry even if lc and if possible the answer is yes. Also while karo or honey can bring the bg up in as little as 15 minutes, wet food takes 20-30 minutes but sticks longer.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

i need to learn more about TR--i have read all the stickies and checked out the spreadsheets of the kitties on it and am in awe of how well they are doing, but it seems like it lacks the safety measures of slgs (like not shooting under 150, or shooting reduced dose between 150 and 200). really scares me. If i had given oregano her full dose at 137 two mornings ago i am not sure she would have been ok; we skipped that am dose and she still dropped into the 80's, which i understand is a great number, but it's awfully close to the danger zone (i'm right on that, right?) and i worry what i could do if she got that low, refused to eat, and was reduced to me having to rub her gums with caro or administer it rectally to keep her alive. we are 30 minutes from the all-night animal hospital and i worry that that is too far away to make it in time if she hits that low.

i am re-reviewing the TR stickies in the hopes that it clicks. as of now, SLGS makes sense to me and seems a followable formula; TR just seems terrifying.

i guess a question i would have would be how low can the kitties go before they reach a point they can't come back, regardless of intervention? that is what keeps me up at night. quite literally. I check her numbers basically hourly through the night.

So happy to see you are posting here and Oregano is well.

Remember she has to totally be off dry food to do TR.

But to answer your question, when you skip a shot, the depot is still in play as you saw. But see how gas she climbed without the insulin to keep her flat? If you had shot, instead of climbing, she might have dropped a bit (likely) and then stayed in normal numbers longer.

We all understand the fear of those first low numbers (50 and below). That’s why you want to be prepared and post here so someone can help you through it.

 

[wade]

We were on the Dr. Elsey’s too and saw a noticeable shift down in numbers once we got rid of it. But some cats do okay on it from what I’ve seen. Here’s a post by Dr. Lisa on why you shouldn’t concentrate on just carb percentage.

ok. we are working diligently to get her off the dry food. it's tough--she's finicky, but i think we can get her there in another week or so. i'm slowly moving her snacks away from crunchies and to just the wet food. the goal is by june 1 to be all wet food.

 

[wade]

You asked if it would be best to get off the dry even if lc and if possible the answer is yes. Also while karo or honey can bring the bg up in as little as 15 minutes, wet food takes 20-30 minutes but sticks longer.

yep. get off dry food forever and ever seems to be the consensus here, so that's the goal. also i am going to be taking tim's advice and stopping what has essentially been free-feeding (snacks when she's hungry) and getting her on a regulated regimented feeding schedule. that starts tomorrow am. i am hopeful that that plus this 3 unit 2x daily dose (which has helped her stay in the 200's for most of the day today and seems to be working--we haven't had those sky-high red 400+ numbers in a couple days) will get her regulated.

thank you everyone for the feedback and the advice.

 

[Tim & Pookey]

yep. get off dry food forever and ever seems to be the consensus here, so that's the goal. also i am going to be taking tim's advice and stopping what has essentially been free-feeding (snacks when she's hungry) and getting her on a regulated regimented feeding schedule. that starts tomorrow am. i am hopeful that that plus this 3 unit 2x daily dose (which has helped her stay in the 200's for most of the day today and seems to be working--we haven't had those sky-high red 400+ numbers in a couple days) will get her regulated.

thank you everyone for the feedback and the advice.

Great!

What are you thinking for a feeding schedule? It was recommended to me when I started to feed before the nadir (typically before +6). After +6 insulin is waning and food adds to that upward momentum.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Great!

What are you thinking for a feeding schedule? It was recommended to me when I started to feed before the nadir (typically before +6). After +6 insulin is waning and food adds to that upward momentum.

And remember if she needs/wants snacks, freeze dried chicken is a great option for a LC snack that won’t raise her BG.

 

[wade]

Hey Wade - no worries, I just went ahead and fixed it for you on the back-end. For future reference, there is an icon that looks like a chain link, that's how you'd insert a link into words.

You're doing a great job with Oregano. I would say the biggest moments in our journey were getting rid of the dry food, switching to TR, and then just being as consistent as possible with everything we did. Consistent with meal times and quantities. Eliminate as many variables as you can.

On being scared of lows, that's perfectly normal. You might find over time and with data that she surfs the low greens nicely, instead of tanking like you're imagining. One example that comes to mind recently is @Seth&Bell back when he had Bell down in the 50s a few months ago.

If you follow the TR guidelines on increases/decreases, and have the hypo kit, you should be pretty well prepared.

roger that. step one is to get her off the dry food, and we are close. she is a finicky though, and diabetic and a paraplegic, so i have to be careful with the food changes. she's pretty finicky. once i can get her fully transitioned over to the soft food i think we are going to take a stab at TR.

thanks again for fixing my spreadsheet link. i really appreciate it.

 

[wade]

Great!

What are you thinking for a feeding schedule? It was recommended to me when I started to feed before the nadir (typically before +6). After +6 insulin is waning and food adds to that upward momentum.

i was going to do amps, snacks at +2 and +4, and then again at +9. then none for 3 hours so she's good and ready to eat at pmps, then +2 (bedtime) which will be 11:30 PM. thoughts on that? i work from home and can be flexible, but just really want to tighten up the schedule so i can get more consistent and remove the current variable of her feeding times, which she has now as she basically free-feeds (small nibbles throughout the day. like three bites every 20-30 minutes.)

 

[wade]

i was going to do amps, snacks at +2 and +4, and then again at +9. then none for 3 hours so she's good and ready to eat at pmps, then +2 (bedtime) which will be 11:30 PM. thoughts on that? i work from home and can be flexible, but just really want to tighten up the schedule so i can get more consistent and remove the current variable of her feeding times, which she has now as she basically free-feeds (small nibbles throughout the day. like three bites every 20-30 minutes.)

based on what you said above though that +9 snack time isn't a good idea.

do you stop food at +6 until pmps? that would be 6 hours of no food, which is going to be tough. am i looking at this wrong?

 

[Tim & Pookey]

i was going to do amps, snacks at +2 and +4, and then again at +9. then none for 3 hours so she's good and ready to eat at pmps, then +2 (bedtime) which will be 11:30 PM. thoughts on that? i work from home and can be flexible, but just really want to tighten up the schedule so i can get more consistent and remove the current variable of her feeding times, which she has now as she basically free-feeds (small nibbles throughout the day. like three bites every 20-30 minutes.)

When I did this transition, I started with +2, +4, and +6 snacks and fine tuned things from there. He doesn’t seem to mind the 6 hour gap until his next meal. Some vets recommend meals 12 hours apart, so I figured 6 was no problem.

Any chance you can get an auto feeder? I could see the variability between AM and PM cycle feeding and BG becoming tricky to understand.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

When I did this transition, I started with +2, +4, and +6 snacks and fine tuned things from there. He doesn’t seem to mind the 6 hour gap until his next meal. Some vets recommend meals 12 hours apart, so I figured 6 was no problem.

Any chance you can get an auto feeder? I could see the variability between AM and PM cycle feeding and BG becoming tricky to understand.

Just keep in mind that ECID so you need to experiment with what works best for Oregano. Most Lantus users start with meals at PS, +1, +2, +3. Tim has found something different works for Pookey. But feeding after +6 works against the action of the diminishing insulin so, again, if she’s hungry or used to a snack, a really LC one like FD chicken works. I kept boiled chicken on hand and gave Gracie a couple small pieces if she was hungry.