Need Advice. Cap Won't Eat. :( | Feline Diabetes Management Board

Need Advice. Cap Won't Eat. :(

CapsMama

CapsMama

New member
Hey all!

I have not been blood testing. I'm open to learning, but someone would need to show me how. (Anyone live in Colorado?)

Cap has been diabetic for awhile. We started out with 1, then moved to 1.5, but his numbers were still super high a couple of weeks ago, so the vet said I could either stay at 1.5 (400s aren't ideal, but she wasn't worried) or go to 2. She also wondered if I wasn't getting the insulin in him sometimes / half the time, because I was shooting into the flabby loose skin of his stomach.

I've been shooting into the shoulders and always double checking to make sure there's no insulin in his fur as she told me, and hovering around 1.5/close to 2 (I ordered the half marker syringes but for some reason got the others this time on auto-ship). And for a few days, he was doing great. Stopped drinking and peeing as much, energetic. But the last two days, he's off his food. And I don't know if he's being picky or just not hungry. He winds around my legs, gets excited, takes a bite or two -- and slinks off, runs away, or hides.

I wondered if there was something in his mouth, so I checked -- and that has "traumatized" him and now he's avoiding me / afraid I'm going to manhandle him all the time and still not eating much. He ate enough yesterday to get his insulin, but this morning barely anything (I managed to give him a shot after 3 separate offerings of food, but it may not have been enough). He didn't eat more than a teaspoon at lunchtime, and a tablespoon or so at dinner. I can try once more around 8 when I feed the rest of the cats, but am just ???.

Is the dose too high? Am I over-dosing him? Should I hold off a dose tonight altogether? Or just feed him high carb food to make him eat?

He is EXCESSIVELY picky and I can only get him to eat one or two things most of the time -- and then after a couple of weeks, he no longer wants it. So far today he's refused 5 different kinds of pate, turkey deli meat, roast beef deli meat, etc. I just don't know if he can't eat or won't. And I know if I wrestle him down and prick his ear, he's even less likely to eat anything. (The last time I tried it, I cut myself in the process, so both of us were bleeding all over the place, then the machine jammed and wouldn't give me a reading, so I had to hold him down and mess with it for five minutes -- not an experience we want to repeat.)

Any suggestions by more experienced cat mamas would be helpful.

As I said, I'm not opposed to learning testing, but someone would have to do it in person. :(
 
(Just for the record: into the shoulders means "the skin above his shoulders.")

ETA: I tried to feed him a high carb food and he had his usual two bites and then ran under the bed.
ETTA: He ate maybe half a can while I was gone, under the bed. I guess I'll skip his insulin tonight. :(
 
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I wouldn't skip the full dose of insulin, you can always give a half dose. With a cat that is not eating, not getting enough insulin, any inflammation or infection on top can be a formula for DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis), which can be a condition needing intensive vet care. Are you home testing him for ketones? You can do it with urine test sticks like Ketostix that are available at most human pharmacies. Here is some information on how to do that: Tips to catch and test a urine sample. Anything above trace means a trip to the vet.

As far as home testing, have you asked the vet if they or a technician can show you how to do it? That's what I did. There are also lots of tips and good videos in this post. Home Testing Links & Tips

We can help you with dose questions if you can start home testing.

As far as food goes, I wonder if he's feeling nausea? It might be worth a trip to the vet. Get them to figure out if he's picky because of a GI issue, something in his mouth, and get that testing demo.
 
Or, have you considered a Freestyle Libre Continuous Glucose Monitor? Then you can still learn how to test — it would give you more time. The vet could hopefully apply one for you. I am concerned that your vet has no problem with Cap being in the 400s. This could put him at risk for a DKA. You should definitely test him for ketones as Wendy suggested.
 
I see you have a spreadsheet attached to your signature, but I can’t see it. You need to change the permissions on the sheet so that “anyone with link” may view it.
 
I updated the spreadsheet. :)

I managed to get him to eat twice today -- not as much as usual, but it's progress. The vet said that the dose may be too high / he's always been super sensitive, and his "twitching" may be related to it, so we're going back to 1.5. She said to stabilize him, get him calm and able to eat again without feeling triggered or threatened, and then work on learning to home test. She thinks the lower dose should clear up his eating issues (IMO, it might be that he's anxious rather than not hungry).

For some reason, he seems triggered by his food bowls... so now he's eating off China, like a Prince.

I'll start practicing with the home testing -- doing it on myself until I know exactly how much blood I need and how to run the machine without it jamming. And I'll practice with the warm sock as well.

Appreciate the support. Am relieved that he's finishing his supper tonight!
 
I’m happy to hear he’s eating better! That’s a positive development. I know what a worry it is to have a cat not eat - or eating very little (something I am currently experiencing with one of my cats.) If he were my cat I would be testing for ketones for sure (of course, I say that after having had a cat who nearly died of a DKA and spent 8 days in intensive care - I have never forgotten that.) My concern is that the few tests you have are all very high. If you are not testing, you are shooting blind. We don’t know how low the dose (any dose) is taking Cap. Dose adjustments cannot be made safely in an information vacuum. A spot glucose test at the vet only tells you what the BG is at a single moment in time. Even a fructosamine test only give you an average glucose over a period of a couple of weeks— it doesn’t tell you the highs and lows that occurred during that time. Did you ask the vet about a Libre sensor? I am not a fan of Libre sensors as I prefer home testing, but they can be a real help for someone as they learn how to test. I cried for at least a week and told myself I would never be able to do any successful tests. That was false!

Hang in there. What is Cap eating these days? Is it a low carb wet food diet?
 
I know, and I will learn to blood test. It's just... stressful and I have an anxiety disorder and a super sensitive cat, so if I'm anxious, he's anxious and it makes the experience worse for both of us. I live alone and there is no one else to do it or help me. So testing him will need to be gradual as I learn how / start doing it on him. :)

We discussed the Libre. My concern is that with a Highly Sensitive cat, even if it stayed on for a week, it would drive him nuts. If it is necessary, I will do it, but I don't want to stress him out any more than is necessary.

Yes, I should be doing everything all right. He's eating mostly Fancy Feast Pate and Revel all-natural chicken in broth, etc. I found the list of approved foods and check every can against it. If he won't eat, I offer him organic salmon I cook myself. He was on Dr. Elsey's dry food, but I weaned him off it after the last test and he never wants it now even though I leave it out for the other cat.

Happily, today he's back to his normal affectionate, "I want to eat at 5am" self. Cuddled me, slept with me, etc., so lowering the dose must have helped him feel better / less paranoid and twitchy.
 
None of us can do everything perfectly! We can only try our best for our cats — and our cats frequently make things difficult (oh boy do they!) Feline Diabetes is definitely a learning process and can take a little time to get up to speed on everything. I can tell that you really love Cap so I am confident that, in time, we can get him into good regulation with the diabetes.
 
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
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6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with

Try putting a thin layer of Vaseline on the ear so the blood will bead up I have never used the lancing device
Click to expand...
 
Thanks!

Gonna try blood testing myself tomorrow, to see if I can get the technique down / figure out how to make the machine work in under a minute. Last time it was a disaster. :P And I'll start getting him used to having his ears touched; he is not a fan, so it may take some time.

Happily, he's back to normal today -- ate his usual amount. Slept a lot, I think from the exhaustion of coming off a few days of being anxious and because it's so hot even with the a/c going. I am sitting with him while he eats, so that he calms down / doesn't freak out and run away randomly. I don't know what triggered his paranoia, but happily we're making progress on getting rid of it.
 
He seems back to normal now. Am waiting for my low carb treats (freeze dried turkey) to arrive so I can hopefully start testing one of these days.

I do have a question... once I know his numbers, what do I DO with that information? Is there a chart or something that will tell me how much insulin to give him at different blood sugar levels?
 
That’s what we are here for. I can help you with that. We follow well established protocols for dosing, but I also have a lot of experience and can help you specifically with dosing. In order to do that safely, though, I do need some testing data on the spreadsheet. All in good time, I hope. It’s great to hear that he’s eating normally again! Have you read through the ProZinc dosing methods on the sticky notes at the beginning of this forum?
 
home testing at first was extremely stressful for me as well, especially when I would see 150BG, I thought he was HYPO, while hospitalized I was told that a diabetic cat's BG should be between 200-300BG, (NOT), so thanks to this Forum I was able to stabilize Corky to where he is right now, Suzanne has been with me from the start, I remember one day she said to me," step back, breath in and breath out, cats are very sensitive to emotions, I stress they stress" and these words were the reason I made it thru to today, I trust this Forum and their members blindly, home testing is good I use ReliON Premier human monitor and strips, the strips do not require that much blood, you can try test, treat, to associate Caps to testing let him see all the stuff let him sniff, I have a little tiny flashlight I place in my mouth, so when I pinch I see the droplet right away, a small sock with rice in it, tie it, you can cup the ear for better grip, as the capillaries swell, the easier to get blood and it gets easier and easier each day, Suzanne mentioned the FreeStyle it is an easier way to test, just knowing that hand monitoring to double check is good, since the Freestyle sensors, can fall off or stop working before the 14th day, they also misread low numbers, and we do not want to panic, like I use to when in the middle of the night the low BG alarm would wake me up and the monitor showed 45-50Bg, they were crazy times, we all go thru them ;) 😺😺
 
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