Need Advice. Cap Won't Eat. :( | Feline Diabetes Management Board

Need Advice. Cap Won't Eat. :(

CapsMama

CapsMama

Member
Hey all!

I have not been blood testing. I'm open to learning, but someone would need to show me how. (Anyone live in Colorado?)

Cap has been diabetic for awhile. We started out with 1, then moved to 1.5, but his numbers were still super high a couple of weeks ago, so the vet said I could either stay at 1.5 (400s aren't ideal, but she wasn't worried) or go to 2. She also wondered if I wasn't getting the insulin in him sometimes / half the time, because I was shooting into the flabby loose skin of his stomach.

I've been shooting into the shoulders and always double checking to make sure there's no insulin in his fur as she told me, and hovering around 1.5/close to 2 (I ordered the half marker syringes but for some reason got the others this time on auto-ship). And for a few days, he was doing great. Stopped drinking and peeing as much, energetic. But the last two days, he's off his food. And I don't know if he's being picky or just not hungry. He winds around my legs, gets excited, takes a bite or two -- and slinks off, runs away, or hides.

I wondered if there was something in his mouth, so I checked -- and that has "traumatized" him and now he's avoiding me / afraid I'm going to manhandle him all the time and still not eating much. He ate enough yesterday to get his insulin, but this morning barely anything (I managed to give him a shot after 3 separate offerings of food, but it may not have been enough). He didn't eat more than a teaspoon at lunchtime, and a tablespoon or so at dinner. I can try once more around 8 when I feed the rest of the cats, but am just ???.

Is the dose too high? Am I over-dosing him? Should I hold off a dose tonight altogether? Or just feed him high carb food to make him eat?

He is EXCESSIVELY picky and I can only get him to eat one or two things most of the time -- and then after a couple of weeks, he no longer wants it. So far today he's refused 5 different kinds of pate, turkey deli meat, roast beef deli meat, etc. I just don't know if he can't eat or won't. And I know if I wrestle him down and prick his ear, he's even less likely to eat anything. (The last time I tried it, I cut myself in the process, so both of us were bleeding all over the place, then the machine jammed and wouldn't give me a reading, so I had to hold him down and mess with it for five minutes -- not an experience we want to repeat.)

Any suggestions by more experienced cat mamas would be helpful.

As I said, I'm not opposed to learning testing, but someone would have to do it in person. :(
 
(Just for the record: into the shoulders means "the skin above his shoulders.")

ETA: I tried to feed him a high carb food and he had his usual two bites and then ran under the bed.
ETTA: He ate maybe half a can while I was gone, under the bed. I guess I'll skip his insulin tonight. :(
 
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I wouldn't skip the full dose of insulin, you can always give a half dose. With a cat that is not eating, not getting enough insulin, any inflammation or infection on top can be a formula for DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis), which can be a condition needing intensive vet care. Are you home testing him for ketones? You can do it with urine test sticks like Ketostix that are available at most human pharmacies. Here is some information on how to do that: Tips to catch and test a urine sample. Anything above trace means a trip to the vet.

As far as home testing, have you asked the vet if they or a technician can show you how to do it? That's what I did. There are also lots of tips and good videos in this post. Home Testing Links & Tips

We can help you with dose questions if you can start home testing.

As far as food goes, I wonder if he's feeling nausea? It might be worth a trip to the vet. Get them to figure out if he's picky because of a GI issue, something in his mouth, and get that testing demo.
 
Or, have you considered a Freestyle Libre Continuous Glucose Monitor? Then you can still learn how to test — it would give you more time. The vet could hopefully apply one for you. I am concerned that your vet has no problem with Cap being in the 400s. This could put him at risk for a DKA. You should definitely test him for ketones as Wendy suggested.
 
I see you have a spreadsheet attached to your signature, but I can’t see it. You need to change the permissions on the sheet so that “anyone with link” may view it.
 
I updated the spreadsheet. :)

I managed to get him to eat twice today -- not as much as usual, but it's progress. The vet said that the dose may be too high / he's always been super sensitive, and his "twitching" may be related to it, so we're going back to 1.5. She said to stabilize him, get him calm and able to eat again without feeling triggered or threatened, and then work on learning to home test. She thinks the lower dose should clear up his eating issues (IMO, it might be that he's anxious rather than not hungry).

For some reason, he seems triggered by his food bowls... so now he's eating off China, like a Prince.

I'll start practicing with the home testing -- doing it on myself until I know exactly how much blood I need and how to run the machine without it jamming. And I'll practice with the warm sock as well.

Appreciate the support. Am relieved that he's finishing his supper tonight!
 
I’m happy to hear he’s eating better! That’s a positive development. I know what a worry it is to have a cat not eat - or eating very little (something I am currently experiencing with one of my cats.) If he were my cat I would be testing for ketones for sure (of course, I say that after having had a cat who nearly died of a DKA and spent 8 days in intensive care - I have never forgotten that.) My concern is that the few tests you have are all very high. If you are not testing, you are shooting blind. We don’t know how low the dose (any dose) is taking Cap. Dose adjustments cannot be made safely in an information vacuum. A spot glucose test at the vet only tells you what the BG is at a single moment in time. Even a fructosamine test only give you an average glucose over a period of a couple of weeks— it doesn’t tell you the highs and lows that occurred during that time. Did you ask the vet about a Libre sensor? I am not a fan of Libre sensors as I prefer home testing, but they can be a real help for someone as they learn how to test. I cried for at least a week and told myself I would never be able to do any successful tests. That was false!

Hang in there. What is Cap eating these days? Is it a low carb wet food diet?
 
I know, and I will learn to blood test. It's just... stressful and I have an anxiety disorder and a super sensitive cat, so if I'm anxious, he's anxious and it makes the experience worse for both of us. I live alone and there is no one else to do it or help me. So testing him will need to be gradual as I learn how / start doing it on him. :)

We discussed the Libre. My concern is that with a Highly Sensitive cat, even if it stayed on for a week, it would drive him nuts. If it is necessary, I will do it, but I don't want to stress him out any more than is necessary.

Yes, I should be doing everything all right. He's eating mostly Fancy Feast Pate and Revel all-natural chicken in broth, etc. I found the list of approved foods and check every can against it. If he won't eat, I offer him organic salmon I cook myself. He was on Dr. Elsey's dry food, but I weaned him off it after the last test and he never wants it now even though I leave it out for the other cat.

Happily, today he's back to his normal affectionate, "I want to eat at 5am" self. Cuddled me, slept with me, etc., so lowering the dose must have helped him feel better / less paranoid and twitchy.
 
None of us can do everything perfectly! We can only try our best for our cats — and our cats frequently make things difficult (oh boy do they!) Feline Diabetes is definitely a learning process and can take a little time to get up to speed on everything. I can tell that you really love Cap so I am confident that, in time, we can get him into good regulation with the diabetes.
 
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
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6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with

Try putting a thin layer of Vaseline on the ear so the blood will bead up I have never used the lancing device
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Thanks!

Gonna try blood testing myself tomorrow, to see if I can get the technique down / figure out how to make the machine work in under a minute. Last time it was a disaster. :P And I'll start getting him used to having his ears touched; he is not a fan, so it may take some time.

Happily, he's back to normal today -- ate his usual amount. Slept a lot, I think from the exhaustion of coming off a few days of being anxious and because it's so hot even with the a/c going. I am sitting with him while he eats, so that he calms down / doesn't freak out and run away randomly. I don't know what triggered his paranoia, but happily we're making progress on getting rid of it.
 
He seems back to normal now. Am waiting for my low carb treats (freeze dried turkey) to arrive so I can hopefully start testing one of these days.

I do have a question... once I know his numbers, what do I DO with that information? Is there a chart or something that will tell me how much insulin to give him at different blood sugar levels?
 
That’s what we are here for. I can help you with that. We follow well established protocols for dosing, but I also have a lot of experience and can help you specifically with dosing. In order to do that safely, though, I do need some testing data on the spreadsheet. All in good time, I hope. It’s great to hear that he’s eating normally again! Have you read through the ProZinc dosing methods on the sticky notes at the beginning of this forum?
 
home testing at first was extremely stressful for me as well, especially when I would see 150BG, I thought he was HYPO, while hospitalized I was told that a diabetic cat's BG should be between 200-300BG, (NOT), so thanks to this Forum I was able to stabilize Corky to where he is right now, Suzanne has been with me from the start, I remember one day she said to me," step back, breath in and breath out, cats are very sensitive to emotions, I stress they stress" and these words were the reason I made it thru to today, I trust this Forum and their members blindly, home testing is good I use ReliON Premier human monitor and strips, the strips do not require that much blood, you can try test, treat, to associate Caps to testing let him see all the stuff let him sniff, I have a little tiny flashlight I place in my mouth, so when I pinch I see the droplet right away, a small sock with rice in it, tie it, you can cup the ear for better grip, as the capillaries swell, the easier to get blood and it gets easier and easier each day, Suzanne mentioned the FreeStyle it is an easier way to test, just knowing that hand monitoring to double check is good, since the Freestyle sensors, can fall off or stop working before the 14th day, they also misread low numbers, and we do not want to panic, like I use to when in the middle of the night the low BG alarm would wake me up and the monitor showed 45-50Bg, they were crazy times, we all go thru them ;) 😺😺
 
I've tried blood testing myself several times and everything I do gives me an ERROR 4 message on ReliOn. Should I just assume it's defective and buy a different brand?

Cap seems pretty tired / lethargic today but I have no way to test him. How do the rest of you know when a cat is just being a lazy cat vs. when a cat has low blood sugar?

He ate normally this morning and had his 1.5 dose and was frisky for awhile, and now he's just napping.
 
CapsMama said:
I've tried blood testing myself several times and everything I do gives me an ERROR 4 message on ReliOn. Should I just assume it's defective and buy a different brand?

Cap seems pretty tired / lethargic today but I have no way to test him. How do the rest of you know when a cat is just being a lazy cat vs. when a cat has low blood sugar?

He ate normally this morning and had his 1.5 dose and was frisky for awhile, and now he's just napping.
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It could be several reasons for an error, the strip is bad not enough or too much blood the tiny bit bog blood needs to filter to the white back of strip, I have had bad strips, it’s more likely to be too much blood, just barely tip the strip, let me know how it goes, I am right here
 
Okay, I got a reading off him. 235. Which is normal/okay so I can chill, I assume?

(He ate at 5am.)

Excellent news is, he loves the freeze dried fish treats, so at least he gets rewarded while mommy tests and freaks out. lol
 
He has no appetite this morning so he won't eat anything. I guess he gets his dose skipped. I even tried the "you can't eat this" high carb gravy food and he didn't want it.

Last night he threw up an enormous hairball, so maybe he just doesn't feel great.

I tried to blood test him, but after five pokes could get nothing on either ear and now he's upset and hiding, so I can't check his sugar this morning. :(
 
CapsMama said:
He has no appetite this morning so he won't eat anything. I guess he gets his dose skipped. I even tried the "you can't eat this" high carb gravy food and he didn't want it.

Last night he threw up an enormous hairball, so maybe he just doesn't feel great.

I tried to blood test him, but after five pokes could get nothing on either ear and now he's upset and hiding, so I can't check his sugar this morning. :(
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When Corky or Coco would loose appetite, I would use MIRATZ, is prescribed cream, small tube that goes a long way, a tip of a pin drop rubbed in a the fold of the inner ear, exchanging ears for 1 week, If I remember correctly on the first ear rub they began to eat immediately also a stuck hair ball could of been the reason for not wanting to eat, Coco my 1/2 Main Coon, gets huuuuge hair balls and when it’s stuck like I call it, she either does not eat all her food or not at all, I will tag Suzanne, I believe Caps has some other health issues and is good to find out if Caps can use the MIRATZ, good luck with testing, perhaps you can lure him with a tiny bit of a snack and test right away
 
I suspect he just doesn't feel great after his hairball. It was HUGE. I am going to let him sleep for awhile. I'll try to get him to eat when I come home at noon after running some errands. I know that if I mess with him too much / manhandle him, he REALLY won't eat as a protest. :P
 
CapsMama said:
I suspect he just doesn't feel great after his hairball. It was HUGE. I am going to let him sleep for awhile. I'll try to get him to eat when I come home at noon after running some errands. I know that if I mess with him too much / manhandle him, he REALLY won't eat as a protest. :P
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Actually, ejecting the hair ball is very relieving for the cat I’m sure by the time you get home Caps will be hungry, I didn’t see much activity in the SS
 
I haven't, but I can pick up some strips today.

Problem with Cap is, the more you act suspicious around him and mess with him, the less likely he is to eat / act normally, since he starts thinking you're gonna take him to the vet and become anxious and paranoid. So handling him, poking him for blood tests (which I am not good at doing), offering him multiple foods, sticking a test stick under his butt when he's peeing, etc., all is going to trigger him into being upset, leading him to hiding and/or not eating.

My dad said just leave him alone today. That I hover too much. :P
 
He finally ate enough at 3pm to have a shot, though I gave him only 1.2 instead of 1.5. He seems to feel good now, even though he didn't want supper.

I had a disastrous attempt this morning to prick his ear, get blood, and test him. Didn't work. Poked him without a result three times. He got upset. I got upset.

How do I learn to do this properly without traumatizing us both?

Half of me wants to just feed him, give him his shot, and watch for weird behavior, only home testing when I feel something is off. The rest of me wants to get to where I can test him 2ce a day, to make sure I don't accidentally kill him with too much or too little insulin, but am scared of screwing up and stressing him out.
 
Since you are having such a hard time testing Caps, I don’t enjoy recommending, but you might want to consider the Libre monitor and sensor, you don’t have to princh Caps, but there are also cons to the Libre the sensors are expensive about $70-80 and they only last 14 days, or less they tend to fall off and they read low numbers inaccurately, but is a shot at least when you dose, you can have a better idea where his BG is at, and you can have more BG readings
 
Yeah, that is my plan by his next vet visit in late Aug, if I can't learn to home test before then. I know he'd also hate that / be bugged by having something "on him" which is incentive for me to woman up here :P
 
The sensor is placed were he can’t reach it or feel it, you can always put a 1/2 sweater around the belly area
 
You can replace the sensor yourself and avoid vet bills is very simple also ask tge vet to give you a PRN prescription (1year) again to avoid vet bills
 
Today he doesn't seem interested in eating again; he might be 'snacking' on the dry food (Dr. Elsey's) and I may have to take it up. I skipped his insulin dose tonight since he simply wouldn't eat enough of anything (I offered His Highess 4 different things, and he nibbled at them all and walked off) to merit a dose. Hopefully tomorrow he'll be back to normal.

For what it's worth, I tested his urine several times this week and it reported no Keytones, which I assume is good?
 
How do you all mentally handle a diabetic cat?

I wrestle a lot with the idea that I might screw this up and kill him, and if I did that, I could never live with myself. I watch him like a hawk, trying to figure out what his new normal is. In the past, if he didn't eat — no worries, he'd do it eventually. But now it's: is he lying around more than usual?? Does that mean something?? Why isn't he pestering me for food today?? Should I leave him alone or check on him regularly??

Is that what compelled you all to get used to blood testing regularly?

I know if I forced myself to do it, eventually we'd either both get used to it (or he would hide every time I came near him :P ) and then I'd have peace of mind with the "ability" to regulate him more, but the fear of doing it wrong / hurting him / making him hate me / making him avoid me is overpowering my knowing that we NEED to do this, so that he's "okay."

Should I start randomly testing during the day, before I try to test him before meals, so he gets used to it first? I think if I could avoid upsetting him, he would still eat.

I want to learn. How many times did it take before you all got used to it?
 
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Everyone feels incompetent at first. Everyone worries they will kill their cat. Luckily cats are pretty resilient. I wouldn’t recommend skipping insulin. Back in the day (at least 30 years ago…maybe more recent)…we didn’t have meters to test humans or cats. I had a diabetic cat back then. The vet set a dose that was low enough that it would hopefully somewhat lower blood surgar but not be so low the cat would go hypo. And I just gave the dose. I don’t recall the frequency, your vet could tell you, but every so often I needed to check urine for glucose and ketones. The glucose should be trace (ideally) or 1+. The ketones negative. Obviously glucose in the urine means the cat is not well controlled. But it also means it’s unlikely the cat will go hypo st any given shot.

There are alternatives to sticking a stick under your cat. Mine would probably hold it out of spite. You can buy No Sorb pellets from the vet, substitute for your litter in box and wait. Once he pees dip stick. Or you can do what we did back in the day before fancy pellets: they had me cover the litter with several layers of Saran Wrap. Pellets are easier. This could be something you could do while working on testing skill.

You can check with your clinic staff or pet sitters (many are skilled with diabetes but ask to be sure)—you could probably pay one of them a standard pet sitting visit charge and they could come work with you on testing how-tos. I didn’t need it for testing but I was a complete wreck over giving the shots. I paid my sitter (who is a vet tech for day job) to come a few times the first two weeks to give a shot while I watched. (I gave the other cat shots for three years but back then we used the scruff which is easier). So it took an enormous load off knowing three of his 14 shots that week would definitely go in and I watched and asked questions. This is better thsn just learning at the clinic for several reasons. You will be where you will do it. And the cat will be less stressed.

Consider getting the libre—if my cat could have one (his tumor makes his skin like tissue paper so he can’t) I would so get one. But still work on testing bc they tend to read low so you may need to double check it.

When I started with methos I always used one spot for testing. I had his most favorite treat and he stopped getting it anywhere but that spot. Then only with tests. Since right now you don’t 100% have to get it don’t force to the point of aggravation for either of you. Only tried once. If it didn’t work, he still got tons of praise and his high value treat. A year later he sometimes goes to “his testing spot” if he’s hungry. We test all over the house now.

I laid everything out in advance including opening the 2x2 and uncapping the lancet (I use it freehand) and putting strip halfway into meter, and was comfortable with the order I would do everything. I practiced my movements without him in room. When ready to try I called him to the test spot. Cats dislike being grabbed or restrained/held down. Try not to do that and don’t wrap in a towel.

Figure what works for you, for me I knelt and got him between my knees, his back to me close up to me so he couldn’t back away. I had him sit and looped my left arm around him without touching just so he couldnt run to the front. Then I pushed strip all the way into meter, picked up 2x2 in left hand and lancet in right. Methos hates his ears touched so I did this part quickly: I put 2x2 under ear edge and quickly poked with lancet. Be bold. Timidly poke poke poke is worse than a single (or 2 ) quick jab with intent. If you go all the way through he will be fine. In the beginning use a larger (smaller gauge) lancet, or make two very quick pokes side by side. I would then hold his head still by moving my left hand to hold his chin/skull steady rather than holding his ear (he hates his ears touched) while dropping lancet and picking up meter. Touch edge of strip to blood and put down meter, apply pressure to jab site. Some people do this while their cat eats a treat. Methos hates being messed with while eating. I would show him the treats so he knew he’d get one after. You can do this. If unsuccessful try not to seems upset. Praise him and reward him. Try again much later that day or try the next day. Make it as positive an experience as you can for him.
I know it doesn’t seem like it but you will get this. Best of luck!
 
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Also re food: this is a pricey solution but many cats love fortiflora. This is a so so but pricey probiotic that comes in foil packets. It is however a good appetite enticer. I use a tiny measure spoon (pinch) and sprinkle the finest amount on food and my cats go wild. I use it like we use salt.
 
🐱 🤗Smallest Sparrow is right, we all have gone thru the same feelings of disparity, sleepless nights sweat and tears, At the beginning when Corky was diagnosed and released from the hospital, I was left alone, no money for vet bills, no guidance, just the insulin syringes and and freestyle sensor, I was lost, no idea what to do and how, I was given high carb prescription food, 3 months later after neighbors emotional support and finding this forum, almost at the point of a breakdown, and so much stress, Corky and Coco are my family Corky’s has been with me thru thick and thin, loosing him was not an option, We all have been where you are right now, Suzanne told me a very wise phrase, that pulled my darkness away
“STEP BACK, BREATH IN AND BREATH OUT, CATS ARE VERY SENSITIVE TO STRESS, YOU STRESS, THEY STRESS”
and it worked, you’ll get it quicker than later, just trust your instincts, and trust this Forum and their members, I do, blindly, seeing Corky’s development /spreadsheet, thru these 3 years tells me I GOT THIS, and so will you
 
If you think about it, you are afraid of hurting Cap and losing him, right? So literally the only way you can be sure that Cap is safe while on insulin is to know his blood glucose and how low the current dose is taking him. Right now, you are simply shooting blind with absolutely no idea what is going on. I can’t understand that. What is his dose of insulin right now? There’s absolutely nothing on his spreadsheet since early July. Giving too little insulin and keeping him in high numbers because you are not testing (and therefore are not in control when you are not testing) is also risky. Keeping him in numbers that are too high can damage his kidneys and other organs. He also is possibly at risk for DKA if he has high ketones. And cats don’t always have to be in the highest numbers to go into diabetic ketoacidosis. My cat was seeing yellow (200s) when he went into DKA and spent a week in the ER with vet techs telling me he wasn’t going to get better and I should euthanize him!

I am not trying to be harsh. I can tell how much you love Cap. I want the very best for him and I am worried about him receiving insulin without anyone knowing what is happening with his blood glucose. I loved my boy too and I was determined to help him as much as I could. I cried for a week while learning to test him. I was the mess. He was not. Our testing time was positive. I gave lots of food and treats and he loved it. A very special bond develops between the diabetic cat and the caregiver.
 
And I have already suggested the Libre sensor as a way to start- while you actually try to learn to test. It took me a couple of weeks (2) to feel comfortable doing it. After a while I could do it in my sleep and practically did. Darcy too — he barely noticed anything… except the treats!
 
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